Very interesting and my Chinese mind resonate with it. 😄 Just one question, about 忘機and鷗鷺忘機，why citing 裴松之 instead of 列子？I thought the latter was the original source for this, and was widely believed to be earlier than 莊子（hence he possibly inspired the discussion of 機 by 莊子）.
Thanks for the input! Yes, the seagull story originates from Liezi (as in: “海上之人有好沤鸟者，每旦之海上从沤鸟游，沤鸟之至者百住而不止”). However, the specific philosophical phrase “忘機” itself wasn't formed in the original Liezi text. The compound concept “鷗鷺忘機” is believed to have been formalized later during the Wei-Jin era.
Furthermore, modern Sinological consensus (e.g., Yang Bojun 杨伯峻) suggests that the text of Liezi we have today was largely compiled or edited during the Wei-Jin period rather than being an intact pre-Qin text.
The AI perspective is really interesting - and at its core based on a completely different set of values. The idea that livelihood is fundamental to moral resolve - important for more than simply providing income contrasts sharply with the west’s “best case” scenario for AI, which is the elimination of livelihoods. No one has to work, everyone just draws universal income off the profits of the automation.
It would be easy to characterize the difference as the West is more concerned with efficiency, profitability, progress, etc. But that is a naïve view when you consider the technological state of Chinese AI, which is extremely high.
So nice to be reminded of other cultural frameworks. A great read. Thanks.
Jingyu, thank you for this rich and thoughtful essay. You might enjoy my thoughts on “君子不器”, a famous line in the Confucian analects:
https://chinaheritage.net/journal/an-educated-man-is-not-a-pot-%e5%90%9b%e5%ad%90%e4%b8%8d%e5%99%a8/
Very interesting and my Chinese mind resonate with it. 😄 Just one question, about 忘機and鷗鷺忘機，why citing 裴松之 instead of 列子？I thought the latter was the original source for this, and was widely believed to be earlier than 莊子（hence he possibly inspired the discussion of 機 by 莊子）.
Thanks for the input! Yes, the seagull story originates from Liezi (as in: “海上之人有好沤鸟者，每旦之海上从沤鸟游，沤鸟之至者百住而不止”). However, the specific philosophical phrase “忘機” itself wasn't formed in the original Liezi text. The compound concept “鷗鷺忘機” is believed to have been formalized later during the Wei-Jin era.
Furthermore, modern Sinological consensus (e.g., Yang Bojun 杨伯峻) suggests that the text of Liezi we have today was largely compiled or edited during the Wei-Jin period rather than being an intact pre-Qin text.
This is brilliant, thanks much.
"Be the first to bear the world's hardship, and the last to enjoy its comfort."
先天下之憂而憂，後天下之樂而樂
Fan Zhongyan
The AI perspective is really interesting - and at its core based on a completely different set of values. The idea that livelihood is fundamental to moral resolve - important for more than simply providing income contrasts sharply with the west’s “best case” scenario for AI, which is the elimination of livelihoods. No one has to work, everyone just draws universal income off the profits of the automation.
It would be easy to characterize the difference as the West is more concerned with efficiency, profitability, progress, etc. But that is a naïve view when you consider the technological state of Chinese AI, which is extremely high.