Very interesting. It puts a perspective on the use of the word by the Hong Kong protesters. It was really childish, more the behavior of rebellious teenagers rather than responsible politicians.
which sounds neutral in English, but uses 光復, the verb used for defeat and eviction of Japan in 1945, in effect calling today’s PRC the new Japanese Empire.
The 1949 “Liberation” was 解放, while the translation of Liberty would be 自由.
Yes, that is better. I was and am strongly supportive of the democracy movement in Hong Kong. I lived there as a child, but the 支那 use by these 2 people was very counterproductive. Jing Yu’s column makes that quite clear.
There is no doubt that 支那 was adopted in pre-war Japan to dethrone China from its status as the “Central Country” and suggest that the mantle had shifted to Japan. The background to this, of course, was Japan’s success in adapting to, and standing up to the Western powers and Western imperialism, and China’s failure to get its act together. This led to a fundamental Japanese review of China’s status, leading to immense arrogance on the Japanese side. I do think that you need to take a wider view of the situation, because there were a lot of currents here. Your broad intellectual analysis needs to take into account domestic trends in Japan, including different factions within Japan and the Japanese army. Quoting newspaper headlines is calculated to shock, but more than just an intellectual history is needed. I was quite shocked to hear of the Taiwanese and Hong Kong adoption of “Shina”. Branding their protest against CCP control in these terms will not endear them to Mainland China. If and when China takes control, their cause will be utterly discredited by the adoption of such a provocative, historically repulsive term.
Your analysis leads to some important questions for China-Japan relations. Is the recent negative trend partially due to a return of Japanese nationalism as a reaction to postwar pacifism? Is it related to the exhaustion of the Japanese left which was pro-Asia and anti-US imperialism? Did China's lack of response to the Hatoyama government's overtures of friendship reflect a lost opportunity? Did rising 20th century Chinese nationalism play a role in this outcome?
Very interesting. It puts a perspective on the use of the word by the Hong Kong protesters. It was really childish, more the behavior of rebellious teenagers rather than responsible politicians.
The asian version of "putler"
I would not call the Hong Kong protesters an Asian version of Putler. It would apply more to Xi, but he is in a category of his own.
I meant that the word "shina" is the asian version of the word "putler", in that it's a valid concern voiced childishly.
That 2016 incident was two people. However more mainstream among the HK movement was the slogan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberate_Hong_Kong,_revolution_of_our_times
which sounds neutral in English, but uses 光復, the verb used for defeat and eviction of Japan in 1945, in effect calling today’s PRC the new Japanese Empire.
The 1949 “Liberation” was 解放, while the translation of Liberty would be 自由.
Yes, that is better. I was and am strongly supportive of the democracy movement in Hong Kong. I lived there as a child, but the 支那 use by these 2 people was very counterproductive. Jing Yu’s column makes that quite clear.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shina_(word)#In_Hong_Kong
There is no doubt that 支那 was adopted in pre-war Japan to dethrone China from its status as the “Central Country” and suggest that the mantle had shifted to Japan. The background to this, of course, was Japan’s success in adapting to, and standing up to the Western powers and Western imperialism, and China’s failure to get its act together. This led to a fundamental Japanese review of China’s status, leading to immense arrogance on the Japanese side. I do think that you need to take a wider view of the situation, because there were a lot of currents here. Your broad intellectual analysis needs to take into account domestic trends in Japan, including different factions within Japan and the Japanese army. Quoting newspaper headlines is calculated to shock, but more than just an intellectual history is needed. I was quite shocked to hear of the Taiwanese and Hong Kong adoption of “Shina”. Branding their protest against CCP control in these terms will not endear them to Mainland China. If and when China takes control, their cause will be utterly discredited by the adoption of such a provocative, historically repulsive term.
Your analysis leads to some important questions for China-Japan relations. Is the recent negative trend partially due to a return of Japanese nationalism as a reaction to postwar pacifism? Is it related to the exhaustion of the Japanese left which was pro-Asia and anti-US imperialism? Did China's lack of response to the Hatoyama government's overtures of friendship reflect a lost opportunity? Did rising 20th century Chinese nationalism play a role in this outcome?
This is an excellent review explaining so much of what is omitted from Western descriptions of Asia. Thanks much.